Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP leader, came south to Dublin last night.  His participation was the X Factor in a discussion at the Merrion Hotel. He shared the stage with Simon Harris. With the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar away at a Summit in Brussels – the Minister for Higher and Further Education was selected to represent the government. (An interesting Fine Gael choice). 

The Tánaiste, Micheál Martin, also had commitments elsewhere so Minister of State Dara Calleary, had a watching brief for Fianna Fáil. As Mary Lou Mc Donald is recuperating following a stay in Dublin’s Rotunda Hospital, Eoin Ó Broin represented Sinn Féin.

The event was organised by Co-Operation Ireland. It came about as the result of discussions between the organisation’s chief executive, Peter Sheridan, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar’s advisor on Northern Ireland Jim Darcy, and the DUP leader, Jeffrey Donaldson.

I was invited to moderate the two-hour event and was honoured to do so, on a pro bono basis.  In the days before it, I said to Jeffrey Donaldson and his DUP advisors that there was little point in turning up unless he had something newsworthy to say.

Co-Operation Ireland drew up the guest list. The packed room had sixty seats. The DUP leader was accompanied by East Belfast MLA, David Brooks, one of its new crop, and Clive Mc Farlane, an experienced member of the staff. 

On a number of occasions during his remarks, Jeffrey Donaldson was applauded by the audience. He was optimistic about the chances of power-sharing being restored in the autumn. He said he hopes an investment conference, with US involvement, will be held in that timeframe and that there will be devolved government ministers available to participate. 

He said the DUP will honour the outcome of the Assembly election and nominate a Deputy First Minister to work with Sinn Féin’s Michelle O’Neill in the First Minister role. He wouldn’t confirm that he has in mind to place a colleague such as Emma Little-Pengelly or Gordon Lyons in the role rather than take it himself.

He made it clear that he wants better north-south relations and greater co-operation on many fronts, including the development of infrastructure. 

I’ve known Jeffrey Donaldson for more than twenty years. There is no doubt that, instinctively, he is a devolutionist. But at times he is an enigma and despite his good manners, he has a tendency to hit the pause button when a decision or action seems close. Sometimes he is the character who smokes but doesn’t inhale. Occasionally he buys the packet of cigarettes but keeps it in his pocket.

For Sir Jeffrey, there are risks in a strategy of sitting on the fence while demanding changes to the Windsor Framework that the British government won’t be able to deliver. 

The rhythm of politics in Northern Ireland accommodates a break in July, the marching season. But after the Apprentice Boys ceremonies play out in August, the spotlight will again fall on Stormont in mothballs and the DUP’s crucial role in that stalemate.

In recent months the DUP has appointed a new team of spokespersons among its Assembly team. East Belfast MP, Gavin Robinson, is now the party’s deputy leader. More recently it ‘refreshed’ its team of party officers, with a majority now committed devolutionists.  

At the end of Thursday night’s event, I spoke to Jeffrey Donaldson, on the record. 

The Currency’s financial model depends on its subscribers.  But occasionally material is made available outside the paywall, free of charge. This is the case with the DUP leader material.   

He was slightly more cautious in the interview than he was during the Merrion Hotel event. 

The recording allows the listener to form a view on whether the DUP under Jeffrey Donaldson is gearing up for the autumn resumption of power-sharing or still making unattainable demands.  

You can listen to the interview here, or you can read the full transcript below.

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Tommie Gorman (TG): Tell me the state of play because there’s been some action behind the scenes. People are getting impatient. Give me your read on where things are at now.

Jeffrey Donaldson (JD): We’ve worked hard over the last few months. we’ve examined the Windsor Framework. We believe some progress has undoubtedly been made. There remain some areas where we believe further work is required, mainly in relation to how the internal market of the United Kingdom operates. I’ve taken time with my colleagues to consult widely. I think we have a good understanding now of what will work for business in terms of their ability to operate within the UK internal market and at the same time ensure that businesses that trade with the EU can continue to do so. So, I believe that the proposals we put to the UK Government are fair and reasonable. And I am hopeful that we can make progress in the next few weeks and months that will get us to where we need to be – and will provide a basis on which we can restore that consensus that is necessary for Stormont to operate effectively. And that’s the outcome I want.

TG: You talk about looking for tweaks in the Windsor Framework but you will also need money – significant funds – to refloat Stormont. How receptive do you think the British government will be to that because you’re in these behind-the-scenes discussions with the government all the time now?

JD: My priority at the moment of course is to get Stormont back up and running on a sound and sustainable basis. And that means addressing and resolving the problems that were created by the protocol and ensuring that any new arrangements that are put in place respect Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom, and our ability to trade with the rest of the UK, as well as to trade with the EU. In terms of our financial situation, we have argued very strongly that the current funding formula doesn’t work for Northern Ireland, and we’re engaging with the other political parties to look at where those pressures are, where the priorities are in terms of getting the funding formula right so that we have sufficient [funds] to operate and deliver our public services such as health and education; that we have money to invest in reforming those public services to make them even more effective and efficient, and that we’ve got the tools that we need to grow the Northern Ireland economy.

TG: That to me sounds like a billion at least, maybe two?

JD: It’s not for me to quantify that. And I think I need to be clear that we’re not mixing Northern Ireland’s public finances with the issues related to resolving our concerns, the concerns of unionism, about the protocol, and the harm we believe it has done to the economy. I want to get that sorted with the government. But I also recognise that we need to resolve the issues around the funding of our public services. And that’s a conversation we’re having – not just with the government, but we’re having with the other political parties in Northern Ireland as well.

TG: Let’s not beat about the bush here. People want to see power-sharing restored. You’re not going to get perfection in relation to the Windsor Framework, because it is a significant improvement on the Northern Ireland Protocol. You’ve had your discussions in London. You know the mood in Brussels. You know the support you have from south of the border – limited, but real. So, taking all those factors into account, is a deal possible?

JD: I am hopeful that we can make the progress that needs to be made. Primarily that has to come from the UK government. I think there is now an onus on the Prime Minister and his colleagues to bring forward a response that broadly addresses the concerns that we have outlined – and they’re not just our concerns, they are the concerns of many businesses and people right across society in Northern Ireland. I believe that progress is possible. I believe the Prime Minister and the government are committed to resolving these issues. So, I am hopeful that we can get this done.

TG: The Americans are very keen to have an investment conference in what they call the fall – what we call the autumn. But I can’t see them having that if they think Stormont is still mothballed. Is that your assessment as well?

JD: I want Northern Ireland to be functioning. I want our executive to be up and running. I want it to have ministers in place so that we can avail of the opportunities that are out there. But we’ve got to have Stormont working on a sound and sustainable basis. That’s my job. That’s the task that I am now engaged in. And I’m hoping that in the next few weeks and months, we’ll see the progress that is needed to get Stormont functioning again, to get the institutions working for the people of Northern Ireland in a sustainable way, and in a way that restores that cross-community consensus that is essential for power-sharing to succeed.

TG: You had a discussion here with the likes of Simon Harris representing the Taoiseach, Dara Calleary representing the Tánaiste, Eoin O’ Broin representing Sinn Fein. People left that room encouraged by what they heard. Was that a proper assessment?

JD: As a politician, my job is to make things work, my job is to get things done. And I am focused on getting an outcome that works for Northern Ireland. And I will not rest until we get that – until we have a response from the government that enables my party to say – and unionism more broadly – that there is a basis now for getting the institutions restored. And therefore, I think I travel in hope.

TG: Will you take the Deputy First Minister’s job yourself, or will you nominate someone from your party?

JD: We’ll take a decision on that when that moment comes. But I am very clear, in respect of the joint office of first and Deputy First Minister, the DUP will nominate a minister to that office.

TG: That to me sounds like you’re likely to stay in Westminster and maybe nominate somebody like Emma Little-Pengelly or Gordon Lyons.

JD: No decisions have been made on these things.

TG: But it is your call, Jeffrey.

JD: Well, it is and I’ll make that call when the time comes. We’re not at that moment yet. There is still work to be done at Westminster. We’ve referred in this interview to the need to ensure that our public finances are put back in order, that our public services have the resources they need to deliver for people on health waiting lists, our children in schools, ensuring that we have enough money to build houses and create the prosperity that Northern Ireland needs. So I’m mindful that all these things are important. They’re not just done at Stormont though; they are also done at Westminster. And the DUP has a strong team in both places. And that gives me the confidence that the DUP, working with the other parties, can deliver what Northern Ireland needs for the future. But it requires that the foundations of Stormont are strong. And that’s what I’m in the business of delivering.

TG: There was quite a positive atmosphere at that discussion tonight. Do you now regard Leo Varadkar, the Taoiseach, as a friend, Micheál Martin as a friend acting in good faith? Or are you still suspicious of their motives?

JD: Well, I have to say that I’ve worked very closely over the last few years with both the Tánaiste Micheál Martin and the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar. And, of course, we’ve had our differences at times. But I think that there is now in the Irish government a recognition that the issues that we have concerns about need to be resolved. I think they want to see those issues resolved as soon as possible. And I think that opens up the opportunity when we do get the institutions back up and running, provided that we can hopefully get the outcomes that we need from the UK Government, that we will see the kind of cooperation that can help both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to deliver the prosperity that people want.

TG: Brexit. The best of both worlds?  Opportunity for Northern Ireland?

JD:  That’s what I’m working to deliver. I’m working to deliver an outcome that ensures businesses in Northern Ireland can trade freely with the rest of the United Kingdom, our biggest market, and at the same time, those businesses that trade into the EU have access into that single market as well. We’re not there yet. We’ve got to resolve those outstanding issues linked to the Windsor Framework, but I am hopeful that that can be achieved.