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“You can’t retire from thinking.”
Tommie Gorman is reflecting on his life since his retirement from RTE earlier this year. His departure from the station led to many tributes about his contribution as a journalist and how his analysis had been critically important at times in Northern Ireland.
Retirement from RTE for him means many things, primarily a chance to spend time at his home in Sligo with his wife Ceara after years in Brussels and Belfast. But he looks at the North at the moment and wants to write about what is happening there too. The DUP appears to be engaged in an existential struggle between fundamentalists and pragmatists, something which will have consequences – and unintended consequences – on this island.
Brexit, of course, has been the most destablising factor, whatever your view on how it has been managed.
The DUP have held to their view that it was the right thing to do but Gorman remembers the night Leave won the referendum and the small celebration party held by the DUP.
“If memory serves me correctly, and if my mind isn’t playing tricks with me, one of the few prominent DUP members who was there on the night when the vote came through was Edwin Poots,” he says.
“I think Edwin was one of the few prominent DUP members who were there on the night the vote came through, I think it’s also worth noting that an awful lot of the running in the DUP in relation to Brexit was done in Westminster. Because their MPs didn’t have an awful lot of clout because of the way the numbers were divided and the way power works at Westminster. But a lot of their political soul mates, a lot of the people they would have knocked around Westminster with are from the Eurosceptic wing, the Brexiteer wing of the Conservative Party…I think most of the people who were involved in the assembly, it was a very, very lukewarm campaign.”
The campaign against the protocol may be anything but lukewarm and Northern Ireland, as so often in the past, braces itself for a testing summer.
“Simon Coveney is a very sensitive person and he takes all these things very seriously.”
How Arlene Foster’s departure alters the balance remains to be seen. There was a time when Tommie Gorman went on RTE and offered some analysis of a woman who was viewed two dimensionally in the south.
“I remember saying in my RTE life that if you think Arlene Foster is a hardliner, she’s not compared to what’s coming behind her. And if you see what has happened since that’s, that’s proven to be true. I don’t think she saw the end coming.”
Viewed as a typical instrangient unionist by many in the south, the truth might have been more complex.
“She was constantly struggling between a person who was hurt by events, a person who suffered at the hands of Republicans, a person who was in the Ulster Unionist Party and played a role in the downfall of David Trimble when she and Jeffrey Donaldson and Nora Beare moved across to the DUP, that was one very big stone pulled out from the Ulster Unionist Party foundation. So there was that person. And then there was the other one. A naturally kind person. There’s a very, very decent side to her. And there’s a person who’s quite interested in the greater good. But I don’t think I can remember a time when things came entirely naturally to her, she was always caught up in that struggle.”
While the DUP has shrunk, Sinn Féin has expanded but as they move closer to government in the south, Gorman says there is a subtle movement in their position.
“I think Sinn Fein are moving to a different space. I don’t think this is fully appreciated, and maybe they’re not noticing it themselves. But I’ll try and explain it this way: I think the closer Sinn Fein gets to government in the south, the more they realise that government is a difficult business and that they won’t have all the answers. And they also recognise the danger that if you screw up in government in a serious way that you’ll be punished by the electorate and that punishment could mean that you’d disappear.”
The evolution of Sinn Fein during the years of peace has been something to watch as well. He looks back on the progress made by the party since Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams were pictured together.
“Micheal Martin’s personality is different. He dislikes rows, you can see it in him. He’s always looking for the middle ground.”
“You look at where Sinn Féin are now politically compared to where the DUP are. Sinn Féin have made greater strides. Pushed by the DUP to decommission their weapons, signed up to policing. They’re a possibility for government down south, they’re the largest party up north. Where are the DUP? They’re fighting among themselves. So Sinn Féin have grown in that political process, but here’s the tricky part. They have committed themselves to power sharing, but the way things are at the moment, who is there to power share with from a unionist perspective?
“Even if things calm down within the DUP? Is it possible that Sinn Féin will be the largest party? You’ll get good odds on that at the moment. That’ll be in May of next year at the latest -if there’s not a snap election before – so it’s less than a year away. Take into account the summer marching season. So can you see the DUP under Edwin Poots or Jeffrey Donaldson or Ian Paisley or Uncle Tom Cobley, can you see the DUP saying ‘Oh that’s grand we’ll go in as the number two party in with Sinn Fein’?.
“In those circumstances too, there would be a real pressure on this unique mandatory coalition model that you have in Northern Ireland as part of the Good Friday Agreement. I think we could be in the final months of that structure. Now if that happens, what do you replace it with? Do you go into voluntary coalitions, you’re certainly go into something that’s entirely new. So that’s one of the realities that’s facing Sinn Féin.”
It is a stark reality that’s facing Northern Ireland too during this period of uncertainty.
In the podcast that accompanies this interview, Tommie Gorman discusses in details those personalities and the unfortunate sequence of events that have led Northern Ireland to this position.
He had previously described Boris Johnson as the bane of his colleagues’ lives while they were both working in Brussels. This would seem to be a role Johnson has continued since he became prime minister. Any alteration in the relationship between Britain and Ireland is down to him, he says.
“It’s because of Boris Johnson, and because of what he represents and because of the direction the Tory party has taken and because the people he gathers around him and because of where their priorities are, and because of the factors that brought him and are keeping him in power. Brexit was the making of Boris, he was the standard bearer of Brexit. So he can’t afford to let Brexit be a disaster. He’s not a great details man. He’s not over interested in the challenges of history and the responsibilities of history. He does what it takes in order to survive. He sees things through the prism of Boris and he’s brilliant in the survival business.”
The influence of President Biden and the US politicians who are interested in the north could be crucial, he feels,
When Edwin Poots came to Dublin on Thursday he attempted to blame Leo Varadkar for the deterioration in the north.
“Unionists at the moment are using Leo Varadkar and Simon Coveney to whip up anger in their own community. Loyalists in particular will cite how Leo Varadkar brought a press release about attacks on border posts during the Troubles and how he was suggesting this is what we’re fighting to prevent in terms of the Brexit debate. So they’re saying that Leo Vardkar used the threat of violence against us to sort of win his argument and to stop a border on the island of Ireland, but actually to create one down the Irish Sea.
“They’ve always given Simon Coveney a hard time, because that’s often the role of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The Taoiseach might get a lighter touched than the Minister for Foreign Affairs. In the same way as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would do an awful lot of the heavy lifting, but then when the glory business came, the prime minister will come and the Secretary of State will be pushed to one side. Simon Coveney is a very sensitive person and he takes all these things very seriously. So I think Fine Gael are getting that because of what happened during the Brexit debate.”
For Micheal Martin, there is an urgency fuelled by the reality that he has maybe one more year in power.
“Micheal Martin’s personality is different. He dislikes rows, you can see it in him. He’s always looking for the middle ground. His Shared Island philosophy is typical of that. And you know, it’s worth saying that Fianna Fail is the Republican Party and they should be the ones who are going for the 32-county Ireland but Micheal Martin is actually going for the shared island approach, which is different than a lot of the traditional Fianna Fail rhetoric. But he also gets on with people.”
Tommie Gorman’s ability to get on with people is partly what has enabled so many to trust him.
Gorman’s own retirement party at RTE made news when Denis O’Brien was one of the guests at the virtual event. Micheál Martin, who was also present, stressed how determined he was to be there to honour Tommie Gorman’s contribution and said he didn’t know Denis O’Brien would also be on the Zoom call.
How did Tommie Gorman feel about the story?
“Sad, in a way, but that’s how it goes. I know lots of people. In the course of my life I’ve met lots of people and I hope I’ll continue to meet them, Denis O’Brien included. I had no issue with Denis O’Brien being at the event. If you look at my track record in dealing with different people over the years. I like to think that I’m friends with all sorts of people and that I’m respected by all sorts of people and part of the reason that I’d like to be respected is that I’ll tell things as they are. I think if you look at my track record in dealing with different people over the years that I’ve always attempted to be fair to them, Denis O’Brien included. The people that you’re working with and I’m working with, you’ve got a bit of form with Denis O’Brien as well in The Currency, with Tom and Ian and yourself. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If ever there’s a story that has to be told it should be told and so be it.”
But he is looking to the future now. He loved writing for the RTE website over the past few years and he feels the analysis and the opportunity to clarify your thinking in the process is something to be cherished. It is why, he says, he is excited by contributing to The Currency and it is one of a number of things he is looking forward to doing in his life after RTE, including advocating for patients with his own condition and watching more of Sligo Rovers.
Primarily, he wants to spend time at home in Sligo with his wife Ceara.
“I left here in 1989. We were in Brussels until 2001. And we were in Belfast until a month ago. I’m here now with my wife and I hope to make up for a lot of the time that I didn’t have with her in the past.”
