Ireland joining the EEC in 1973 was a monumental step, placing a marginal offshore island into the common market and the heart of Europe. Aware the move would have a profound effect on Ireland’s laws, corporate law firm McCann Fitzgerald set up a satellite office in Brussels to keep its clients in the loop. It was a pioneering move, the first time an Irish practice put boots on the ground in a foreign jurisdiction. 

Other Dublin law firms soon followed suit, expanding into the financial capitals of New York and London and more recently the West coast US tech hubs of San Francisco and Palo Alto.

The overseas playbook firmly took hold as the IDA fuelled inward investment into Ireland on the back of ad hoc corporate tax reforms that later bedded down into the signatory 12.5 per cent tax rate. As multinationals poured into Ireland, the corporate law firms wanted a slice of the FDI pie. One way to do that was to be on the ground and visible both to corporate investors and their financial and legal intermediaries who provide referral work.

Fast forward to 2022 and the top six largest Irish law firms – Matheson, Arthur Cox, A&L Goodbody, McCann Fitzgerald, William Fry and Mason Hayes & Curran – all have outposts in at least two cities abroad reflecting the cross border nature of much of their practice. 

As global giants like Dentons, DLA Piper, and now possibly magic circle firm Allen & Overy, muscle into the ever more competitive Irish legal services market, offering an international one-stop shop to prospective clients, The Currency spoke to managing and senior partners from Irish firms Arthur Cox and McCann Fitzgerald about their overseas operations practicing Irish law, particularly the important role their offices abroad play in driving business growth, honing expertise, and maintaining smooth relations with international clients.

Both firms say about half of their work now originates from overseas, a dramatic shift in the balance away from the domestic sphere, in the space of a couple of decades. 

McCann Fitzgerald has offices in Dublin, Brussels, London and New York; Arthur Cox in Dublin, Belfast, London, New York, and San Francisco.

Interviewed from McCann Fitzgerald were Barry Devereux, corporate partner, and former managing partner (The Currency spoke to him before he finished up his term last month. Stephen Holst is now in the role.) and Georgina O’Riordan, head of the firm’s Finance Group. O’Riordan focuses on banking and asset finance transactions and advises leading aircraft lessors. 

From Arthur Cox, The Currency spoke with managing partner Geoff Moore who specialises in mergers and acquisitions, corporate finance and private equity, and corporate tax partner Ailish Finnerty.

If GPA goes to London, we go…

Barry Devereux, partner and former managing partner of McCann Fitzgerald. Photo: Bryan Meade

If the regulatory impact of EEC membership guided McCann Fitzgerald’s launch in Brussels, the move to London in the 1980s was purely client driven. As in just the one client, GPA to be precise.

“The office in London opened in 1986 and that was predominantly in pursuit of GPA, the aircraft leasing company, which was doing a lot of business through the UK. It was a big client of the firm so it became imperative to move to London and open an office there,” Devereux tells me over a Zoom call. 

It seems hard to fathom today that one company could have such a monumental impact.

Both the Brussels and London offshoots have proved successful in the long run, although they serve very different purposes. In Brussels the focus is on procurement and competition law, whereas London as a centre of finance, has broadened out to become McCann’s largest overseas base with 11 staff posted there. The firm expanded again in January 2016 when it opened an office in New York city which has three permanent people on the ground and support from three partners in Dublin previously based in the US office.

“For us, it’s been a bet on the future as to where the clients will get the most value from us in terms of our international footprint,” Devereux says. “The firm in its DNA always believed in the international footprint. It’s where we improve ourselves, where we can equip ourselves to be better lawyers.

“In terms of the work, we don’t practice English law, we don’t practice US law or Belgian law. Our job is to support our clients doing transactions abroad and typically through Irish law. We’re not competing with English firms or US firms. That would be a dangerous strategy for us. We are very much here to service our clients’ needs and be of much use and assistance as we can be by having offices in different countries.”

O’Riordan, based in Dublin, fleshes out the routine reality of their overseas operations, focusing on aviation financing and leasing, a big part of McCann’s practice, having advised global operators like SMBC Aviation Capital, BBAM\FLY Leasing and, back in 2014, AerCap in relation to its US$7.6 billion acquisition of ILFC from AIG, the largest M&A deal in the aviation industry at the time. “A very significant portion of our business is working for clients who deal day in and day out in cross-border transactions. I’m on the aircraft finance side so that is something that by its nature is cross border. We work with them as lead counsel in jurisdictions all around the world whether that is the Middle East, America, APAC. We travel with them there for particular transactions but more on a day-to-day basis we are managing transactions where we are dealing with a lawyer in Mexico, a lawyer in the Middle East, a lawyer out in Japan. So we follow them in that broader sense, stepping away from the offices for the moment. The offices are obviously based in big centres for us, the two biggest financial centres, the US and London.”

Georgina O’Riordan and Barry Devereux of McCann Fitzgerald. Photo: Bryan Meade

Foreign direct investment

Unsurprisingly the corporate law offering at the firm’s London and New York operations has been shaped by the vicissitudes of the economy.

“As we came into the 2000s, there was a lot in the European capital markets structured finance securitisation transactions, where we would have been working for some of the major global financial institutions that would be headquartered in London, working on those capital markets type transactions that they ran,” according to O’Riordan.

“In 2008, 2009, 2010, we started to look at a lot of the restructuring work that came out of the global financial crisis and advising on some of those global structured deals we would have worked on in the early 2000s and the restructuring of them post the financial crisis.”

A big part of the New York strategy has been about identifying clients who are interested in investing in Ireland and then helping them through that process whether it’s snapping up Irish tech, medtech or pharma companies, or setting up operations through the IDA.

“It’s a mix of that debt capital markets work. We do some investment funds work as well in New York and that is also very important to our London office. On occasion, we have had associates from our aviation team based there. So everything we do out of the Finance department here in Dublin, we do some of that out of the London office as well. So it is much broader now than when we set up the office in the eighties,” O’Riordan says.

Devereux notes that Ireland has become a domicile of choice for the global funds industry, particularly since the new investment limited partnership (ILP) regime was introduced in 2020 increasing safeguards and flexibility for ILP managers and investors.

“We are seeing a lot of activity from the US in terms of private equity firms looking to establish European investment firms through Ireland. In the six years since we opened it’s predominantly corporate, there is some litigation, finance, real estate but it is primarily a corporate offering looking to capture the flow of work that goes from the US, Canada into Ireland which obviously is growing year on year,” he said.

“The office is certainly pulling its weight in terms of attracting that work, in large part doing the work they find in New York, supported by Dublin. There is too much for the New York office to do on its own so they will funnel a lot of that work to Dublin but they will continue to maintain a base on the transactional mandate.”

The mantra for McCanns is that the US office is a full working office beyond the ambassadorial. “It’s not just an emissary representative whose job is to bring in business,” he adds.

But Devereux accepts optics play a part. Clients take you more seriously if you invest in a bricks and mortar office. “If you are flitting in and out on sorties as we call them your credibility is undermined because they know you won’t be around next week or the week after when they may need you. So I think having people on the ground who are not there for three months or six months but three to five to six years gives you credibility and it takes a while to build that up. That’s a reason for the success. People are actually living there and being part of the ecosystem that is New York or London.”

And the Dublin office feeds back into that ecosystem. “All 80 partners travel to and from these offices and use them for client meetings or counterparty meetings. They are very much working offices both for the partners and associates and trainees based there, but also for those of us based in Dublin,” O’Riordan says.

McCann Fitzgerald partner Georgina O’Riordan

An independent offering

The model has reaped rewards. But what of the future? An obvious question for any of the major domestic law firms is how they plan to compete with the new wave of deep-pocketed global law firms foraying into the Irish legal services market. Two weeks ago, it was reported by The Lawyer that magic circle firm Allen & Overy are on the hunt for space in Dublin.

Francesca Comyn (FC): I’m curious when I speak to these massive global law firms, like DLA Piper and Dentons, that have touched down in Dublin in recent years. One of the mantras seems to be we offer something different, a connectivity. They have the global pitch that is beyond any of the Irish firms even the large ones like yourselves. When they make these claims what is your reaction to it?

Barry Devereux (BD): The two firms you mentioned do have big global footprints. They have offices in many, many countries and can offer a client a one-stop seamless service, a one-stop shop. We don’t offer that. We’ve spoken to our clients in the last year in relation to the arrival of the international firms and for many, many of them that reach isn’t important for them. What they want is the institutional knowledge that a firm like ours has when you operate here for 60 years, a knowledge of government, a knowledge of regulators, a knowledge of how things work in Ireland. 

But what we say to some clients, we say, look you are going on an international expansion, buying businesses in central Europe, for example. It could be Hungary, it could be Bulgaria, it could be Romania and the legal systems are quite alien to our clients and to us. So we would offer to step in and oversee the transaction and essentially make sure the transaction looks to all intents and purposes like it would if it were an Irish transaction. So it would replicate as best it could what their boards would be used to seeing, what their executives would be used to seeing and our job is to iron out local knowledge. So we get the relationship with the local law firms and say here is the transaction agreement. We are going to do it this way and we want you to let us know if we have overlooked something in your jurisdiction. Do we need competition clearance? How do you close out a share transfer in Romania? 

So we take away from the clients the bother of having to manage a lot of local relationships and local issues. Increasingly that is becoming a useful resource for clients who don’t have the time to begin those relationships. It’s less important in the UK, US or France and Germany where they are big established economies. The firms there are very much international in nature. But when you go into some countries, the clients don’t have the time or wherewithal to build relationships or try to understand how the deal will work in different countries.

GOR: Because I think we’ve been doing international work for so long, I’m speaking to my own area in aviation finance. Because we led the way for GPA, that’s 40 years of dealing with numerous jurisdictions around the world. We know the lawyers to go to. We would have a very strong network of independent law firms who we would use in those jurisdictions Barry is mentioning. Their global network is not something that is part of our business plan. We’re a leading independent law firm here and we are looking to leverage the relationships we have with leading independent law firms in other jurisdictions that our clients are looking to do business in.

Cartels and competition law 

FC: In Brussels would it be more about the lobbying piece?

BD: I think that is fair to say. The history of the Brussels office is that it started off with competition and merger control laws that were introduced as a result of Ireland joining the EEC. We had to learn pretty quickly about those things. But over the years and the decades since, it’s evolved into things like the concept of dominance and cartels; the whole communications and telecoms industry has been regulated out of Brussels. 

And during the recession, you will remember there were a lot of state aid issues coming out of propping up banks and corporates in Ireland and whether that was compliant with EU law.

I think in Brussels we interact a lot with the DG Comm, the competition body, and we would see it as a service we would offer clients. We can say you have a case coming into Brussels why don’t you come out to our office in Brussels and we can handle it here. We know the people, we know the way these things are done and we offer that as a useful service which clients like the NTA last year. We had a big case against Irish Ferries on the enforcement side. That was a very useful service to offer. 

And also our intel from what’s happening. Brussels is mammoth in terms of the machine. It throws up a huge number of regulations every year and just staying in touch with that and knowing what is coming down the tracks is a big plus to be able to say to clients ‘you’re in this industry, we are hearing this on the ground, do you want to make a representation’ and things like that. So yes it is a different kind of office than the London office which is basically a financial transactions machine.

I ask Devereux if any new McCann overseas ventures are on the horizon and he strongly hints there may be movement on the west coast of America, where many rival Irish firms have set up shop. “We’ve been out there on many trips and our clients are saying to us you need to be out there to be relevant to us in relation to Ireland. We keep that under constant review.” Does that translate as San Francisco or Silicon Valley, I ask. “Yes,” Devereux replies before adding “Toronto”.

******

From Boston to Berlin

Arthur Cox partner Ailish Finnerty and managing partner Geoff Moore. Photo: Bryan Meade

Sun floods the outdoor decking on the sixth floor of Arthur Cox’s Dublin bespoke headquarters at Ten Earlsfort Terrace, hitting the clean lines of a built-in concrete bench and a raised bed of shrubbery on a rare sunny May day. Inside the client suite, managing partner Geoff Moore is laying out the firm’s early ventures in the US from the early 1980s; first in Boston an office which later closed, then New York.

“I would say when the IDA and then subsequently Enterprise Ireland got very focused on bringing corporates in we decided crikey, that’s something we need to be doing as well. So we’ve been there for what is that, 35 years plus on the East Coast.”

London is a more recent departure, since 2003. “We only effectively practice Irish Law and Northern Irish law in Belfast so it’s not like we’re going to have an enormous headcount in either office, but making sure we get on that FDI piece out of North America, and indeed the UK, I would say too is really, really important,” Moore says.

It is not just a question of being close to direct clients. While in the early years much of the firm’s overseas work came about from IDA introductions, these days referral work often comes from intermediaries, like investment banks and leading independent law firms based in New York, Chicago, Boston, and London. 

“And then the other piece of it for us, which again is a more recent phenomenon, is following a handful of our really big listed clients abroad, clients like CRH or clients like Flutter. They trust us now  – not to do US work – but to the extent they’re doing something significant in the US that we would quarterback it for them for want of a better description. That’s something that I think the bigger magic circle firms did really well for a long time and we’re starting to see a little bit of that now as well. So having boots on the ground, certainly I would say in North America, helps that,” Moore says.

“We’ve only one person in San Francisco. We don’t have any particular plans for global domination out there but again, the tech piece there is increasingly important. You look at Barrow Street, you look at Facebook, you look at PayPal, you look at Stripe you look at TikTok, you name it. So we’ve had someone out there for the last several years. And you know, that’s an attractive thing for some more junior people to say would you like to do six months or 12 months in San Francisco? If we can find them somewhere to live which is an increasing challenge in the Bay Area. It’s bonkers.”

Growing beyond Ireland

I ask Moore about the tangible benefits of having a corporeal presence abroad. He has no ready answer but is confident satellite offices are an important fuel for growth in the firm.

FC: You have your internal figures. I know some of the offices go back a long time so it’s hard to tell but the more recent ones, is there a measurable gain, in terms of growth?

Geoff Moore (GM): Do we track it scientifically? We don’t. Because to give you an example, we could get a referral from a New York law firm which you could argue on the one hand is North American income, but they might actually say, ultimately, six months down the line when we’re issuing our bill, at the Irish subsidiary. So it’s an imperfect science to track it. But there is no doubt in my mind that the percentage of our work that has a properly international cross border element has definitely increased in the past 20 odd years or so.

FC: Beyond 50-50 in terms of the international piece versus the domestic piece?

GM: I’d say it’s a it’s about 50-50. But then again, going back 20 years, that would have been 80-20 domestic to international. There’s definitely a pattern there. So we’re not in North America as a defensive mechanism at all, I think we’re there because, frankly, some of our clients expect it and equally, it’s important for the business to be close to those law firms and those banks that are an important piece of the pie for us.

FC: When it comes to referral work, presumably there are certain areas of practice that you’d be particularly strong in.

GM: The mergers and acquisitions piece; we’ve been fortunate to have a good reputation in that area for a long, long time. A lot of the cross border work would be brought in on that. But the financing piece is increasingly international as well. Now. I mean, there’s an awful lot of financial services work in the city, whether it’s investment funds, whether it’s debt capital markets listings, whether it’s aviation or lessors, and by definition, a lot of those entities that are Dublin centric, they’ve got operations all over the world. So that’s an important piece for us.

FC: Private equity swarming in, that’s been one of the big trends for the last few years.

GM: It has. I mean if you’d asked me two years ago, when Covid hit, I would have said, transactional activity and M&A is probably going to decline because of uncertainty, interest rates – no one knows how long this pandemic is going to last. And actually, if anything, private equity fueled a boom in work for firms like ourselves, and advisory firms, because they were and continue to sit on such enormous amounts of raised capital that need to get spent. That has definitely driven things. I would have said to you as I said two years ago, there’s going to be a lot of restructuring work but that hasn’t happened, yet at least.

When it comes to expanding the firm’s international offering, Moore says Arthur Cox has no plans to “stick a flag” in any new jurisdictions at this juncture, despite increased private equity activity post-Brexit from countries like Germany and France. “Quite a few German private equity funds or institutional funds have been investing in the Irish real estate market over the last several years and I would say not so much in real estate but more in pharma and tech,” he says.

Stellar independents

I ask Moore about the shifting legal services landscape in Ireland that has seen a flurry of international players enter the market, many post Brexit, including Pinsent Mason, Simmons & Simmons and Tully Rinckey. Some have more ambitious plans than others. In February, mid-sized Dublin firm Eugene F Collins announced it was merging with the London-based global firm Addleshaw Goddard in a bid to double in size.

GM: We don’t take any of the new entrants for granted, frankly, it keeps me on my toes. Competition is good. We’ve got to up our game, we need to up our game. Is it a more competitive landscape than it was? Absolutely it is. In terms of what I’d like to say differentiates us from perhaps some of those new entrants, and they are great firms, I’m not knocking them, they are great firms, but to develop full service capability in a market as mature as this takes a lot of hiring and a lot of time.

In any mature legal jurisdiction, and Ireland is certainly a mature jurisdiction at this stage, there always has been room for a handful of I would like to say stellar independents and I certainly hope we occupy one of those positions in Dublin. And that independence piece actually, that plays well for certain clients. Others it doesn’t, but that independence piece plays well for certain clients because with the best will in the world, I think if you’re in 60 jurisdictions under one umbrella, it’s very, very hard to have consistency of service across those 60 jurisdictions. Whereas if you’re partnering with one of the handful of leading independents in any jurisdiction, you can be pretty sure  – you can’t be positive – you’re going to get close to the best talent in that jurisdiction. Up until now at least that model has worked reasonably well for us. Am I complacent or am I assuming that’s going to continue to work in the future? Definitely not.

War in Ukraine and sanctions

When Russian tanks invaded Ukraine last February leading to international sanctions, Arthur Cox was among a number of legal firms to announce it was severing ties with certain clients. 

“We are appalled by the horrific scenes in Ukraine and condemn the invasion of Ukraine by Russia which has prompted a review of all existing and any new Russia-related work,” a spokesperson told The Currency in a statement at the time.

In truth, Arthur Cox was more exposed than other Irish law firms because of the niche business it had built up helping Russian business interests establish financial conduits in Ireland. Three months into the war, I ask Moore about the firm’s position and losing a substantial whack of business.
“I wouldn’t say it was a substantial whack of business. We had some meaningful instructions over the years in relation to Russia. Absolutely we did. Things moved very very quickly for a few days there and the situation is beyond horrendous,” he says.

“If I look at the EU response, the wave of sanctions that still seem to be coming week on week, month on month, I don’t think the situation is going to get any better unfortunately any time soon. It’s really tricky,” he adds.

For the firm, it has accelerated more general discussions about values and what sort of work they should be doing. “There’s certainly work we’ve turned away over the last several years, without getting into the details of it, that we wouldn’t have turned away 10 or 20 years ago.”

FC: Because of suspected money laundering?

GM: Not even that, certain sectors or certain areas that you might say, that don’t really fit with our values or what we’re about, I think you’re definitely going to see more of that. Pornography is an example.  I would say, some of the other jurisdictions as well around the globe where again with the benefit of hindsight, I suspect, KYC and the Panama Papers, the world has definitely changed and also plenty of other firms I think are just more conscious of making the right decisions in terms of the work we take on and the work we don’t take on. 

FC: And that would be even just putting internal structures in place for maybe more rigorous vetting procedures as to how work is picked?

“Correct. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. That’s a work in progress. I think issues as well about your staff actually saying, again not personalising it to this firm, with staff saying, for example, we shouldn’t be acting for particular clients in particular sectors. You’ve got to walk the walk on that stuff. You just do.

FC: But Russia is interesting. Is everyone waiting to see when it’s all right to do that work again? It’s not actually banned, outside of the sanctions.

GM: But then equally depending on the scope of the sanctions, some of it is written unbelievably broadly to be candid about it, we’re not going to get paid either for doing a lot of this work. People need to be sensible. I mean, the Russian situation is really, really tricky. We have three Ukrainian colleagues on staff. We have at least two, if not three, joining us from one of the Ukrainian firms on secondment. And we need to be really conscious of that too. 

On the ground in New York with Ailish Finnerty

Arthur Cox partner Ailish Finnerty. Photo: Bryan Meade

Later at the firm’s offices, I speak with Ailish Finnerty, a tax partner who shares insights from her 2011 to 2014 spell at Arthur Cox’s satellite office in New York. It was the bleak IMF years of the financial crisis when the IDA and Irish politicians clamoured to get the message out to America – Ireland is open for business. 

“It was a really interesting time to be there, obviously, because we were in the depths of despair in Ireland. Things were very bleak here. And we were sent out to New York and really it was a very different atmosphere there as you can imagine; a lot more upbeat and a lot more positive. It had suffered quite a bit also, but maybe in some respects there is a different mindset or a more of a can do attitude in the US than would be customary in Europe,” she says.

Her mission was twofold: to represent Irish clients looking to do business in the US and securing the introductions they needed to start building a profile, and to act for American firms already in Ireland or scoping out Ireland. 

“For a lot of the major multinationals, notwithstanding the significant presence they would have here, a lot of your instructions would still come from the US HQ. So having a presence closer to them is helpful. It’s helpful to them so you can get to them quickly. You are in their timezone or closer to their timezone.”

As an advisor, Finnerty says it is important to be aware of the environment in which a client is operating in, especially as it is subject to change all the time through new regulations, legislative change, the market and economic factors. “So observing that and responding to it, or anticipating what their needs might be as a consequence, is very important. And it’s something that sophisticated clients would expect of us and so being in the market helps us to have that perspective and to offer a broader understanding of their business.”

Being on the ground not only deepens the firm’s client relationships it gives a valuable perspective on Ireland’s role in a global enterprise.

“There is a tendency when you’re in Ireland to think the Irish piece is everything. And when you are in your representative office abroad and you’re in their plant in New Jersey or wherever it is, you get to see that the Irish piece is but a piece. And it is important that you make it as easy as possible for them to do business in the jurisdiction, that you make it as user friendly as possible for them to engage with you as a firm and as a jurisdiction. There are a lot of stresses on the average executive’s desk. You try to minimise the stress they’re getting from what you are doing with them,” Finnerty says.

So you realise you can’t take up much of these people’s time? You have to be super on the button.

“Yeah, super on the button. We’re culturally very similar, but we’re culturally not the same. And, you have to be quick to get to the proposition that you’re bringing, and you have to understand their business and how that proposition will fit for them. And that is a training I think we would all benefit from in the firm to be honest.”

The US offering beyond tax

FC: You obviously specialise in tax. Is that very much a typical qualification for the US office?

Ailish Finnerty (AF): It is an important aspect of the advisory service we would provide to US clients coming looking to do business here. I would say it has diminished in importance. The Irish offering has evolved over time but the role tax plays in that has diminished and is diminishing. And I think that is in response to everything that’s happening on the international stage. The OECD BEPS project, the European Commission taking the BEPS measures and implementing them around Europe and elsewhere. I think that has changed and will continue to change what people look for in a jurisdiction and how they want to structure their tax affairs. And I think in some respects, you might say that it could make Ireland’s offering more sustainable into the long term. It’s very easy for another jurisdiction to compete with us on tax.

FC: Did you find yourself at a lot of IDA roadshows or equivalent during your time in New York?

AF: There were lots of events to go to. There were events where Irish businesses would go over and try and get a foothold and we would go and support them. The Irish community is very tight over there. 

So you would go along to support them. That’s business development, but it is more of an ambassadorial role, supporting Irish businesses at whatever is going on.

FC: Would you have seen the likes of Michael Noonan coming over?

AF: I saw a lot of that firsthand across the political spectrum because obviously it wasn’t just one party, but how tough a gig that was. They were running from event to event. Someone would thrust a piece of paper in their hand as they’re walking into a new room with a new group of people with a different set of concerns. They had to adapt the message accordingly and deliver, then be pulled off the stage and off to something else. Like they were gruelling, gruelling trips for them. The message was Ireland is open for business. We will do our best to make it as favourable as possible for business to operate and succeed in Ireland, please invest in Ireland. In some of the meetings that I that I was at; these would be industry bodies or various other investor groupings, and we would have been there with the other Irish service providers. There were standing ovations for the Irish politicians coming over. Because there was a real respect for the fight back attitude. And that resonated I think with Americans and in no small part contributed to the interest in the jurisdiction.

You would endorse the message if you were asked but it wasn’t really our stage, we were in the audience. And you would go for personal interest as well sure; as much to see how is this message going down? How is it being framed? What is the policy response here? And how is it being received because that’s important for us to know. how is it being received. And it was overwhelming, how positive it was being received and it was really heartening to see. You know, they were interesting times.

FC: What noticeable trends did you observe in those few years spent in New York in terms of international clients or inward investment. 

AF: Obviously, tech and life sciences continued to invest. They were already significantly invested in the jurisdiction and they continued to invest substantially and swathes of new companies opened operations here and since then. So that gravy train continued. And those companies that are established operations here are still here. 

The complexity of the here and now

FC: What are the new issues cropping up, for example, tax or on the regulatory side?

AF: So as a consequence of the financial crash, there has been a swathe of financial regulation that has come in that a lot of our clients would have needed help to navigate. So there were a lot of regulatory changes depending on the sector they were in, particularly in the financial services sector that would have required a lot of assistance for navigation. Now, I think the issues are different again, talent has never been as big a topic as it is right now. We live with that reality here in the Irish market, and in the legal services market, but also for our clients almost irrespective of sector. There is a talent crunch, and I think that is probably a much bigger issue now than obviously it would have been then.

As our conversation wraps, Finnerty asks about the impetus for the article. I tell her it was mainly prompted by the shake-up in the Irish legal services sector, with the influx of new actors coming in. It seemed fitting to look out.

She pauses briefly and then responds, contextualising shifts in the legal services market with the broader uncertainties of the current moment.

“Between inflationary pressures, what’s happening unfortunately in Ukraine, everything that’s going on in the economic side of things, you have new entrants into the Irish market. So there’s more domestic competition for us, which isn’t something that we had seen before to any material extent. We are moving into a new landscape. Obviously, we are delivering our service a little bit differently in a post Covid world and our workforce on a 50 per cent hybrid model. So it’s all change. I guess it’s staying ahead and staying relevant when the sands are moving under your feet all the time.”

That, she says, is the challenging part.